Interview: Artist Jim Fern
Talent, I think, usually is natural. It's either there, or it's not. DNA really has a lot do do with much.
-Jim Fern
Good morning, Jim.
Sounds like Mission impossible
[Laughs] How old were you when you first started working professionally?
17. My Uncle Frank knew comic strip artist and creator, Bill Rechin who drew the syndicated newspaper strip, Crock. One of the 3 that looked like it was done by the same guy:
Wizard of Id, B.C., and Crock. Bill and my uncle were ushers in church in Annandale Virginia. We’re Catholic.
I didn’t know it, but my uncle showed Bill my drawings, so when visiting my uncle one summer, at 15 years old, he introduced me to Bill and Bill said "You're good enough to work right now; I have a friend who is a comic book artist and needs a background assistant". His friend was comic strip and comic book artist Mike Roy. When I
finally graduated high school 2 years later, I moved to Virginia and went to work for Mike. His studio was a 45 foot houseboat on the Potomac River.
That's actually how I got my first job:
My mother knew someone, who knew someone, who needed help.
That would have been right at the tail end of the Silver Age, around 1981?
Summer 1982, in May, or early June, I have a photo somewhere of me holding my first paycheck as a cartoonist if we zoom on it I'll know for sure, but I'll have to find it first [laughs].
Your job, as far as the 10 year old in my head in concerned, sounded like a dream come true.
It was so much, so absolutely, incredibly, a dream come true!! The irony is, I never realized it was a job. I even said to Bill, "You mean I can get paid for drawing?” Seriously, I read comics, saw the names, had my favorite artists, but never thought of drawing as a job.
What was your best memory of working with Mr. Roy?
Driving around Washington, DC. We'd go to lunch or whatever. He had this long boat of a car, maybe a Delta 88, he told me about driving in New York and how he could do it better than the cab drivers. I never forgot that.
So, I wound up taking up that mantle. Now, one of my favorite things to do is drive in New York City. My brother-in-law was an engineer in the LIRR (Long Island Railroad), and wants me to take the train all the time. I always drive (when I possibly can). Mike showed me how to not be afraid driving. Keep in mind, I was 17, so I only just got my drivers license while working with him.
Not to mention Mike Himself. He must have been 5'4" and had this handle bar mustache and a voice of a radio announcer. I grew up loving radio drama. He had a voice like Les Tremayne. He really even looked like Les Tremayne, but bald on top, hair on the sides.
He was a great guy and a great character! Always up beat, always had vim and vigor: Loved being an artist. Loved being a cartoonist with the National Cartoonists Society. Just a great guy.
I also helped him drawing instruction manuals for the Special Olympics. He was a person who was involved. I can't say he volunteered with charities, I don't remember, but that's where his heart was
He sounds like the perfect mentor.
He wasn't really a mentor. I didn't have mentors in my life, except for my mom. He was just a great person to know.
The word “mentor” gets thrown around too casually, but I know what you mean.
We all know people in our lives who touch us, but it doesn't mean they're our mentors
My dad died when I was three. I have two older sisters, but I really didn't know them growing up, except for the younger one who was around a bit more when I was a kid. My older sister was married and raising her own family. the younger sister, and I mean younger than my older sister by 2 years, was around a lot.
So my mom was my role model, really. She could be a tough lady. She was a good artist in her own right; so was my dad, my sisters, my uncle Frank. I have a long line of artists in my family on both sides.
So you came by your talents naturally?
Talent, I think, usually is natural. It's either there, or it's not. DNA really has a lot do do with much.
Thinking of photos, I do have photo with Milton Caniff, my uncle
Frank who I was referring to before, and myself, a year later.
I'm just thinking my references are old [laughs].
Do you know who Milton Caniff was?
I may not always know the names, but I usually know their work.
I need to ask about moving to the Big Two, Marvel and DC.
So, when I learned at the age of 15 that I had what it took to be an assistant to Mike, I was still in high school and had to wait two years to graduate before I could go and help Mike. I thought I'd give a try and send in a submission to DC Comics, I was always a DC kid and adult. I worked on this poster shot, and some other drawings, and sent them in. I posted one letter directly to Dick Giordano, and just another one
randomly to DC comics. The next day after mailing my samples, and I think this was maybe September of 1980, I get a phone call. My mom picks up the phone, then she pulls the phone away from her ear and says "Jimmy, it's for you. It's someone from DC Comics!" Boy, talk about my heart jumping out of my chest! This could have been end of August, I can't remember. I pick up the phone and it was Ernie Colon and [he] talked about how he received my samples and thought I was really good and they were starting this new project called New Talent Showcase. He asked me if I was interested in coming into the offices to see him!
So, me being 15, my mom escorted me into the city, taking the train, and I met with Ernie Colon. He was sharing the back end of an office with Marv Wolfman.
The feeling I had when we walked into the lobby of DC comics as a kid still in school... I can't even tell you!
Ernie Colon tutored me a little bit because drawing well, and drawing comic books, continuity, is another beast altogether that I knew nothing about. Eventually Ernie gave up on me after a few visits and told me I need to learn perspective.
Vanishing points or the business?
Actual drawing perspective with vanishing points. That's THE most important thing to know when drawing, especially continuity art in comic books
I struggled through the rest of high school, then finally went to help Mike Roy.
Work with Mike dried up. I did other work; got a job as an art director at $20.00 an hour as an 18 year old, then was offered to assist, then take over, as CG art director for ABC News Nightline with Ted Koppel [I] had to go back to New York for personal reasons. Got back to New York and had no work.
So, I call DC, was put on the phone with Sal Amendola who took over the spot for Ernie Colon on New Talent Showcase. Went into the offices to meet him. He looked at my work once, critiqued it, pushed me out the door basically saying I was too young and need to mature my "eye".
So now, you ask me, how do I go from being pushed out of DC to getting into Marvel without knowing perspective?
Your biography says you started working for Marvel in 1983.
Was that a full time job?
No, not a full time job, none of this is about a full time job: It's about freelance. This was either Spring or Fall of 1983. I think it was more like Spring.
So, DC at that time wasn't interested in me, and here I left a $20.00 an hour job in Virginia to go back to New York for zip. Didn't know what else to do but call Bill Rechin. He says "Let me give you the address of another friend of mine who's an artist for Marvel"... Sal Buscema!
I send Sal an envelope with copies of some new stuff I drew for samples, and at that time, I knew more about inking than I did when I got the gig with Mike Roy. So I drew some stuff and inked some of it, some I didn't. I write in the letter to Sal, "Call collect". He calls me collect [laughs]. He said to me that he thought I was good enough to be an inker and he said “let me set you up with Ralph Macchio.” I forget how it came about, but he told Ralph about me, I got Ralph's direct line from Sal, called Ralph, got an appointment to see him, went in and Ralph just let me sit in his office.
He was really good to me [the] new kid, his assistant at the time
was Bob Harras. I remember Bob intently looking at me the whole time. As I sat in their office like a ventriloquist dummy (I was extremely shy back then) Ralph had one of the staff, might have been John Morelli, not sure, come in with a couple of pages of partially inked pages of Thriller, inked by Vinnie Colletta. Vinnie had background guys do his backgrounds (obviously, or maybe not so obviously) but Vinnie spilled what looked like pea soup on these pages, and the pages were a bit warped. I kid you not: The stains had been blotted enough that they were faint, but it was an unknown substance I can only hope it was just pea soup. So this staff person throws the pages down on Ralph's desk and says “No one wants to touch these pages”. Ralph took a spontaneous chance with me: I guess 'cause he liked my samples, and asked if I thought I could ink these and bring them back the next day. I said sure or something like that. Again, [I was] so excited to be where I was. Now, remember again, I have only just gotten a license the year before and had no car, so in order for me to rush in the next day was to drive in, or wait for the train schedule, so I got my mom to drive me.
Oh, and those pages that Vinnie spilled whatever on were warped, so it was really a challenge inking on bubbled paper, because of the unidentified wet stuff that was spilled on it.
That was my first job for Marvel with no credits
We're both hoping it was soup.
How long before you started getting credit?
The next day when I handed in those pages. I turned in these messed up pages, did a good job with the warped paper it was on, and Ralph was impressed enough that he introduced me to whomever walked into his office the next day when I handed those in. He introduced me to Linda Grant, I think Sol Brodsky (I'm not
sure) came in and hung around with a dead cigar sitting on the couch, Linda was Denny O'Neil's editorial assistant. She liked what she saw of my work enough to take a chance on giving me a six page ink job on a Moon Knight story, penciled by Bill Reinhold. Bill and I are still friends to this day. So, I handed in the Moon Knight job and Denny O'Neil hated what I did. He brought in Carl Potts to critique my inks. Denny was less than impressed with me and pushed me out of the offices with more urgency than Sal Amendola did at DC. As I was being shuffled out, Denny said "I remember what it was like to be young and eager once".
I'll never forget that. It's seared into my memory
Funny thing is, maybe 7 years later I wind up penciling a batman story for Denny when he was editor up at DC. I don't think he ever remembered me, and we hadn't seen each other face to face when he was at DC when he gave me a Batman Annual job #15. His assistant Kelly Plunkett, told me "Denny thinks you're great!".
Now, I feel guilty: I say that about our younger associates.
Yeah, Archie, words are important. The impression you leave on someone, positive and negative, will last forever
I'm learning that, slowly.
You're listed on the credits for Marvel Fanfare 38 "#*@%&¢!"
(I'm glad I didn't have to search by title).
That's the Moon Knight story. Denny O'Neil never used it 'cause he hated what I did. Years later, Al Milgrom, who was the editor of Fanfare, used it because he didn’t think it was that bad. Milgrom and I became friends. He's a good guy.
You sometimes used the non de plume "James Bosch"...
Is that a play on Bond?
And why the de plume?
Before I get to that, (and I hope you can fit this all in) after I got shoved out by Mr. O'Neil, I had no work.
I tried doing little odd art jobs locally, going on interview after interview, so here I am used to making money in Virginia, being treated with respect for my talent, and I'm back in New York where no one cares about what I can do.
Much like today [Laughs]. Life comes full circle. But I digress. So, out of desperation, I call up Sal Amendola at DC, this is only several months after I first met him, and introduce myself by saying "I'm an inker for Marvel Comics, would you be interested in meeting with me?" and he said, "Yes!"
Sal never remembered me or escorting me out of DC saying I was too young to draw comics. From that I started as an inker in New Talent Showcase, inking Ron Wagner in my first story, with Adam Kubert lettering!
Around 1984? Yeah, around 1983 late, or early 1984. The book started in advance of publishing date, so I think my story came out in 1985.
I don't sometimes use James Bosch. I only used it once on 3 issues of the Green Lantern at the request of one time GL editor Pete Tomasi.
Sorry, I saw it mentioned about a dozen times, I had to ask.
People do ask: Bosch is my mom's maiden name. I'm a descendant of 14th century artist from the Netherlands, Hieronymus Bosch. This is what I mean about art in the DNA. My editor asked me to change my name, so I used my mom's maiden name. Apparently, a lot of the editors up at DC saw my work my one issue of Aquaman and thought it was great, but when asked who did the art, hearing the name “Jim Fern” didn't excite them. Pete thought my work was great, but somehow I developed a reputation... Of what, I don't know, but that's the way it is
That's both interesting and unsettling.
It is unsettling: I think it boils down to unfounded rumors, but that's for another discussion. remember what I said about the impression you leave can last? Well, someone's criticizing of you can leave an impression with fellow colleagues. It's part of the human experience: Kids in my high school thought I was a burn out. I was on medication prescribed by our family doctor to help my breathing. I have bad lungs. that stuff had me walking around like a zombie. So instead of asking me how I'm doing, everyone just assumed I was a druggie.
THAT I know about it.
So you're a druggie too? [laughs]
Depression.
My mom was a schizophrenic. So were her 2 sisters
I know about depression and the medication that goes with it
I went through that stage with my mom for 10 years. every 6 months she went in so they could experiment
The übernerd in me needs to ask:
Was anyone talking about Infinite Crisis at the time?
'Infinite Crisis'?
The editors might have been, but they have a way of keeping a wall of hierarchy, unless you're one of the story developers, sometimes we're on a need to know basis so nothing is leaked.
You have to understand I was never one of the in the loop guys, I just wanted to draw, and create visuals, so I never really asked questions. At that point, when I became a pro, I stopped reading, not that I didn't want to read, I did, but just never had time, and when I did have time, I was out of the studio trying to do other things than draw.
I know that feeling, I haven't read for pleasure in about two years now.
I am so looking forward to just being able to sit back and read with no worries of a deadline, or lack there of, of money
So we'll use this interview to jumpstart my Kickstarter campaign!
[Laughs] "We're Tired and We'd Like Some Time Off".
That's exactly the name of the Campaign!
You're credited for co-creating and creating two characters that I've been able to find: Jubilation "Jubilee" Lee and Scarlett.
I hate to be a bore, but I did draw Jubilee in her first appearance: X-Men annual 13. I designed her based on Chris Clermont's description. when designing something for comic books, it can be simply done, or a lot of discussion back and forth. For Jubilee, I was never in touch with Chris C. I don't think he even knows who I am. I finally introduced myself to him at the Tampa comic book and toy convention about four years ago. He never even looked up. He was so focused on signing for the fans, so that was a let down for me.
I am in Marvel Universe with Jubilee
And Scarlett?
As for Scarlett… I have a sore spot with that one on many levels, but that was more of a collaborative effort, but even not that much. The writer and co-creator Tom Joyner, with co-creator Keith Wilson came up with the character ideas, and they too had written down the physical descriptions, and I drew what I read. Fortunately, the picture I have in my head the first time is good enough for the writers. we did talk about how I made her fangs too long and should make them more dainty. I patterned her look after actress Jensen Daggett in Friday the 13th part VIII, Jason Takes Manhattan. I was so smitten with her!
So something good did come out of that movie.
[Laughs] Well, maybe her, but I don't know about my drawings. [Sighs] I can't even look at what I did now: I had to rush the art. The story of the early part of my career has been rushing out the work. I want to write a book called the Rush of Drawing Comic Books® by JimJamesFernBosch. The irony is I wound up with a bad reputation for being slow, which is erroneous.
I could actually see that as a coffee table book.
My Rush of Comics title?
I'd buy it. An insider's story of the comic book industry.
My double entendré title: The thrill and the rush of deadlines. I'm hoping to do some how to draw videos in a couple of months. I haven't seen any how to videos or books that actually go deep enough
Looking at your art now, it's pretty inspirational. You avoided the creepy Barbie doll waist and what I like to call "volleyballs stapled to the chest" effect.
Let me tell you: I was starting to do that in the early 1990s because I thought it was the only way I could get work and sell books.
I was doing a bunch of cards for Homage Studios in 1995 and I started drawing women with extra long legs and big chests because I thought that was the Image way. Then Jim Lee stopped me from getting more work because he said my work looked too much like "Dick Giordano's". The irony is I never thought of drawing like Dick Giordano.
And I worked for Jim Shooter who kept saying, “make the breasts bigger. Bigger.” So I was all mixed up on how I wanted to draw and what I thought would get me more work. In recent years I finally un-trained myself and now draw without the pressure of having to do art that is exploitative towards women.
What I haven't mentioned yet, and I'd regret not doing so, is meeting Don Heck. When I got the Moon Knight job to ink, I was choking. I was afraid to touch these beautiful pencils. It was the first time I saw someone else's pencils —
I felt the same way when I was first handed an interview to edit and correct: These are someone else's words. A published author, too.
So I had this envelope, and I might still have it somewhere, with the fantastic Marvel Comics sticker with a John Romita Sr. Spider-Man swinging in the corner, and I took it to the local comic book shop. Jim Phoel was running the store and we've only recently reconnected on Facebook after 32 years (that's the wonderful thing of Facebook,) and I had this envelope with art, but there was this older fellow introducing himself to Jim, so I didn't want to interrupt, still being shy, and the guy introduces himself, "Hi, I'm Don Heck....."!
So there I was next to Don Heck and
I said "Don Heck!! I'm Jim Fern, can I ask you a question?" He says "Yeah". I pull out these pages and tell him "I just got this job handed to me by Denny O'Neil and I really don't know how to start this." [laughs]
You have no idea how hard it is not to fanboy gush over these names you casually throw out.
I'm glad to have these names in my life for you to enjoy, and that's not all, but I'll get to the other guy in a bit. Those were the days when it was still easy to get around
Wolfman, Heck, Giordano...
If you wind up mentioning that you bareknuckle boxed Jack Kirby, I'm literally done.
[Laughs] You would pull his name out! Nope. One of my regrets is not getting to talk to him. saw him at a con once and he was swamped... But... I did sit next to Steve Ditko on the small couch in the Marvel reception room once....
I'm done! You've gone too far! [Laughs]
I go home (living with my sister and her family, drawing in the finished basement) just staring at these pages of Bill Reinhold's and those days the letters were on the page. Let me tell you how, for me, this was like opening up the best package ever! Like my first baseball card pack: The smell of newsprint and bubble gum [Sighs].
I'm staring at these pages and I'm still choking. I think to myself "Call Don Heck! What's his number? Look it up in the phone book." I do and there he is, "Don Heck, 83 Tree Lane, Centereach, NY." I dial the number, he picks up. I re-introduce myself to him, he remembered me, it was only the day before, I tell him I'm choking, still no clue, he offers for me to come to his house and he'll show me some tips. He said "But I can't spend a lot of time with you. I'm busy working on a job."
I went to his house, and from there we were the best of friends for 12 years until he passed away of lung cancer almost a year to the month after my mom died of lung cancer.
So, I was at his house, in his studio, and let me tell you, his whole house was a studio: A drawing table in every room, comic art hanging from the walls, not on the walls, but on a clothes line, and on an easel a Jack Kirby original drawing for Don over his drawing table on the wall, playboy pin ups! [Laughs] And books, books, and more books. Comic books, newspaper strips, a dresser drawer in his closet full of art pens, pencils! My brain was exploding with joy!
An Artist's Artist.
I can't imagine it being that easy today.
Ah... It can still be, but there are so many more young people looking to get in today than when I started. I was one of the few new young guys, except for Lee, McFarlane, Maguire, Art Adams, Mignola, Romita, Jr. We all fairly much started around the same time, same age, but no one remembers me, but they really have no reason, too.
Don wanted to do nothing else but be an artist, a book cover painter though. He loved drawing comic books, but he really wished to be a cover artist for novels. An illustrator.
Meanwhile, I was inking with speedball pen nibs and ink. Don showed me the different brushes and pens, gave me a bunch of pen nibs. Used ones though. And I still have them. some are discontinued and they were the best quality
My stories are more about people than comic book titles
The writers and artists are the story.
I usually interview cosplayers, the superfans.
To me, you brought imagination to life. That's a lot more important than who edited this, or who rewrote that.
This will sound like fanboy gushing: But you're work inspired people. Even if you never hear from them, meet them, and Lord knows how many may not even be aware of your name:
You inspired people.
I'll tell you, Archie, how good of you it is to say that because that is the only thing that insulated me from the scars of rejection; just getting to inspire one person inspires me to keep going.
I don't do many conventions, but once in a while I need to so that I can feel like what I'm doing isn't for nothing. The hope that I touch someone, and the instant feedback from the smattering of fans is really a boost to my soul. This business of comic books can be soul crushing. Another friend of mine is Amanda Conner and Jimmy Palmiotti. Amanda and I were talking about deadlines as an artist and she finished my sentence by saying, "It's soul sucking". That's exactly what the mechanics of the business can be, but when a job is finished, and hopefully finished well, and is received well, it's soul satisfying.
So the other name is John Buscema. John lived near Don and I. Don Heck truly tried to emulate John's work. I would see John once in a while at the local comic shop. Once a year, Don Heck and I would hang out at the local convention and John would hang around with us.
I knew both Sal Buscema and John. The big irony is Sal was easier to be friends with than John. Sal lived in Virginia, still does, and Jon lived a stone's throw from me on Long Island.
I want to hear more, but I think I have enough for an interview.
The only thing I have is I'd like to formally ask is the same thing I asked in our pre-interview meet:
Would you do it all again?
Uh... Yeah, I would, but with the knowledge I know now. If I could go back to my 17 year old self and tell him which direction to go, and what contract not to sign...
Thanks for asking me for this interview. There's so much more, but I'll save that for my book.
I'll look forward to interviewing you about that and reading it.
Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk to me, Jim.